DVSA checks

[wildebus]

I have seen DVSA doing road side checks both on the A17 just short of Sleaford on the left hand side of the road if driving from the Newark direction, there is also one of their hot spots on the High Dyke A52 to the east of Grantham where they have a large test facility. On several occasions I have seen motorhomes being pulled at these locations.

I can see a request for a weight check being perfectly valid as it is a safety thing, but DVSA/Police/Whoever surely cannot say something like "we want to look in your garage" without a reason? and if the driver refuses, a search warrant would be needed and a justification provided - and I don't think saying to a magistrate "we want to see if he is carrying his motorbike in his motor caravan" wouldn't quite cut it.

 

[Millie Master]

This is a topic which has been discussed many times over Dave. It all comes down to a fine grey line interpretation of the laws covering what you can and can't carry in a motorhome and that is why they have been carrying out there road side checks as some owners who are also professional car booters for instance and are carrying their goods here and there.
The carrying of bikes would appear to be an even greyer an area which all goes to show that the bloody DVSA are no longer funded by HM Gov. and have to earn as much as they can with roadside checks!

 

[wildebus]

This is a topic which has been discussed many times over Dave. It all comes down to a fine grey line interpretation of the laws covering what you can and can't carry in a motorhome and that is why they have been carrying out there road side checks as some owners who are also professional car booters for instance and are carrying their goods here and there.
The carrying of bikes would appear to be an even greyer an area which all goes to show that the bloody DVSA are no longer funded by HM Gov. and have to earn as much as they can with roadside checks!

The point I am making is not if what contents are in the vehicle means it is no longer a Motor Caravan, but the right to inspect the vehicle to check the contents being carried.
If you were stopped in your car and the police said they want to look in the boot, you are quite within your rights to refuse to show them if they cannot show either a search warrant or - as I understand it -reasonable suspicion that a crime is being commited. Carrying a motorbike in a Motor Caravan is not illegal. it may constitute a contravention of a vehicle use or whatever, but that is not a criminal offence.

If I were stopped and asked to open a locker or garage, I would very likely decline unless I was asked very nicely AND given a legitimate reason for the request.

 

[Millie Master]

I agree with you, but in so saying, I wouldn't want to become a marked person and if anyone does annoy either the Police or DVSA at one of these roadside checks, I wouldn't mind betting a pound to a penny that they would soon find something else wrong with the vehicle.

Throughout my motoring life, both in the UK and overseas, I have always done exactly the same thing when being stopped, namely, yes sir no sir three bags full sir, in the softest, calmest and most polite fashion even when I have been seething mad!

 

[SquirrellCook]

I've mentioned this before, but if you end being classed a a private hgv 3.5 to 7.5 tonnes. You can't have a passenger or any contents in the vehicle.
Unless you use it commercially, the it is no longer private.
If you start reading these laws, you'll notice they are woolly at best and would hard to pursue in court.
I think sat navs are still illegal as you are not allowed a viewing screen in sight of the driver.

 

[wildebus]

I've mentioned this before, but if you end being classed a a private hgv 3.5 to 7.5 tonnes. You can't have a passenger or any contents in the vehicle.
Unless you use it commercially, the it is no longer private.
If you start reading these laws, you'll notice they are woolly at best and would hard to pursue in court.
I think sat navs are still illegal as you are not allowed a viewing screen in sight of the driver.

sorry, but that makes no sense. No passengers? so driver only and no one else? no contents? so an empty vehicle?

 

[SquirrellCook]

sorry, but that makes no sense. No passengers? so driver only and no one else? no contents? so an empty vehicle?

I'll dig out the section when I can find it again, maybe it's just the way I read it?

 

[Squiffy]

I can see a request for a weight check being perfectly valid as it is a safety thing, but DVSA/Police/Whoever surely cannot say something like "we want to look in your garage" without a reason? and if the driver refuses, a search warrant would be needed and a justification provided - and I don't think saying to a magistrate "we want to see if he is carrying his motorbike in his motor caravan" wouldn't quite cut it.

To be the devils advocate Dave if the police/DVSA are doing roadside checks they have the ultimate authority to look at anything in and around the vehicle on the grounds of a vehicle safety check. The average copper on the beat and many motor patrol police can only check obvious things such as lights, tyres, lights, horn body panel safety and windscreen washers and wipers, in the main if you have a dodgy tyre or a light not working they usually issue you with a producer where by you have X amount of days to go to an MoT station to get the producer signed by the authorised tester to say that the faults have been repaired, you then have to produce this certificate to a police station to have it verified. The police on these road checks have been on a special course which enables them to remove a vehicle off the road on finding a dangerous fault likely to cause death or injury of course what folk are not aware of is that the VOSA/DVSA have much higher powers than the police when dealing with road vehicles on these road side checks. As far as I'm aware the average motorway police can only sieze a vehicle for No tax, No insurance or driving without a suitable licence. This was correct in 2001 whether the powers of the police have been changed in this respect over the last 19 years I can not be sure

 

[wildebus]

yes, check all the things you say ... but "I want to have a look in your boot" even if the vehicle is not overweight, tyres in perfect condition, etc, etc,? No chance.

 

[Squiffy]

As I said Dave they do not have to ask permission (Trained vehicle inspectors), just as HM Customs do not have to ask permission to pull your vehicle to bits. Nor do they apologise when nothing is found. The Road side checks you are in the main asked to leave the vehicle though you are allowed to watch the vehicle being inspected, if they want to look in the garage they just use the safety of the rear floor area card and they certainly will not worry about you asking for a search warrant . Phil

P.s. I used to get 3 or 4 of these producers turning up each month when I had the MoT station.

 

[SquirrellCook]

I’ve been stopped twice and asked to show what I had in the back. The first time was in a street racing car, trying to explain no interior trim and the dry sump tank was fun. I think being polite was the reason I didn’t find myself facing the magistrates in the morning. The second time was in a Luton lorry leaving an industrial estate around midnight. I thanked the officer for diligence.

 

[Squiffy]

I’ve been stopped twice and asked to show what I had in the back. The first time was in a street racing car, trying to explain no interior trim and the dry sump tank was fun. I think being polite was the reason I didn’t find myself facing the magistrates in the morning. The second time was in a Luton lorry leaving an industrial estate around midnight. I thanked the officer for diligence.

And drove off in your recently stolen van . Phil

Joke by the way.

 

[SquirrellCook]

And drove off in your recently stolen van . Phil

Joke by the way.

I don’t think I was asked to prove it was mine other than giving my name. It was stolen once and the buggers brought it back, just didn’t park it in my spot. Though they did take a very expensive set of jump leads. Forensics came out, but the chap said it was almost impossible to get any evidence to stand up in court.

 

[wildebus]

I’ve been stopped twice and asked to show what I had in the back. The first time was in a street racing car, trying to explain no interior trim and the dry sump tank was fun. I think being polite was the reason I didn’t find myself facing the magistrates in the morning. The second time was in a Luton lorry leaving an industrial estate around midnight. I thanked the officer for diligence.

both times potentially suspicious circumstances. different to being pulled in on a routine roadside check.

I was "pulled over" by a couple of policemen as I was walking along a road in london on a "stop and search" around 30 years ago. That was understandable to me as I was dressed not very smartly, but was carrying quite a nice briefcase.
Was asked to open briefcase (may have been asked to describe contents beforehand? can't recall). But I bet if I was dressed in a suit and tie I would not have been stopped, or if carrying my books in a sports bag, as there would not have been anything apparently untoward (unlike leaving an industrial estate at midnight in a lorry )

 

[Squiffy]

I think there is confusion as to routine check and Roadside vehicle safety check, the police have the right to stop a vehicle on the Queens highway if they suspect that the vehicle has been involved in a crime, has something that makes the vehicle illegal to be used on public roads, they have to show due cause to interrupt the passage of a citizen, this law is open to major interpretation and trust me you would not win in a court of law, they will have (had)valid reason to stop you, once stopped they can then expand their inquiry to other things other than the state of the vehicle I.e. breathalyser, suspicion of carrying drugs,weapons etc. And will ask you to open the boot especially if you start getting barrack room lawry with them as it will only peek their interest as to why you are refusing to open the boot, unless you have committed a crime or have no Tax or insurance plod can not make you leave the car and seize it, they would have to let you go on your way.
But Road side safety checks are a totally different situation when carried out by DVSA/Trained Police in vehicle regulations,
They have horrendous rights in law and can remove your vehicle off the road for any dangerous condition, being over weight on the rear axle (In my opinion most motor homes with a motorcycle in the rear garage are over weight) being one of many reasons they can either seize the vehicle or insist you correct the fault immediately if practical. I.e. Remove the motorcycle to bring the weight into regulation over the back axle or dump fresh water if it will bring the mass weight into regulation, whether you will be fined for being over weight or using the vehicle as a motor home when it should be classed as a Race vehicle with accommodation will be up to the enforcing officer that pulled you into the check area, there is it is said a 5% tolerance but it is not official and will again depend on your attitude and the enforcement officers attitude. There are several places where these checks occur using a DVSA weigh bridge that has been been built just off the road side specifically for weighing commercial vehicles, though they do use weight pads and if you are found to be over a critical weight you will be escorted to a weigh bridge that is used by the DVSA for this reason. Phil

 

[wildebus]

And if your vehicle is under all required weights, has legal tyres, wipers, etc. etc. .....
And you are not fleeing from a Crime scene ....

That is the situation I am talking about in ALL my replies.


If your vehicle is dangerous, overweight, etc. THAT is a different situation and NOT one I am talking about in any comment.

 

[Squiffy]

Then your on your way

 

[wildebus]

Then your on your way

(And your motorbike is still in your garage)

If you are going to push the envelope, you want to make sure that envelope is stamped and addressed correctly and so doesn't get opened

 

[Squiffy]

The chances of Mr Plod knowing anything about what is classed as a motor home and what is classed as a van with windows or Race vehicle with accommodation to my mind is very slight or indeed if he does look in the garage he or she will probably not bat an eye lid other than maybe asking if you own the motorcycle and then he might check with the DVLA. But if you are directed into a Vehicle safety check area then you better be sure that yor vehicle covers all the ticks and balances because these guys are the kiddies and know their onions, and they will find any problems that you've been meaning to put right over the last six months .Phil

 

[wildebus]

this is why people should make sure their vehicle (be it van, car, bike, motorhome, road roller or traction engine) is legal. what could be simplier than that?