Sticky solar panel

[Squiffy]

Well, I decided after 7 years to replace my 120watt solar panel with an upgrade. Not absolutely necessary as I haven't had to use my Honda generater for the seven years since I built this van, mainly because of the 120watt solar panel, ( We do alot of off grid and use the Sky Q box too). But I wanted to see if an extra 40watts would make much difference. However I come on to the main reason for this thread. How safe is a glued on solar panel, well I can tell you it's massively safe if you have followed the rules. Far from an easy job, as I had to remove all four solar panel mounts that I'd glued on seven maybe now eight years ago now, and believe me it took me 2hrs to remove the mounts, using my coverted thin blade 12inch kitchen knife, I had to continually sharpen it and used silicone grease to help with slicing through the old " Sticks like shit" Evo stick white adhesive sealant, and believe you me eight years down the line there is absolutely no way that solar panel was going to depart from the van roof even in a Hurricane force wind, I was more concerned about the UV degradation of the plastic mounts but after cleaning them up I had no qualms about reusing them for the 160watt panel, which by the way was smaller than the old panel by some margin, hence the reason for removing all four mounts.

As for the new panel I have to say the 3.5 hrs taken to fit the new panel was justified as the panel out performed the old one even in over cast sky's.
So in finishing I can say with hand on heart if you glue even a big panel down properly the doom sayers are totally wrong in their hand wringing episodes of how glued solar panels or anything else glued to your van roof are dangerous. Commercial builders are doing it all the time. Phil

P.s. I've also recently as I've posted glued an 85cm dish to the roof, I now have no qualms about skittering down the motorway at (70) mph

 

[trevskoda]

Do you have an mppt control unit rather than the old PWM type.

 

[Squiffy]

Yes trev, it's a Victron 75/15.

 

[Millie Master]

Despite what you say Phil, I am still of the opinion, when attaching items such as solar panels to use a belt and braces method of attachment, or in other words a good, high quality stainless steel stud and lock nut as well as of course the carefully managed thickness of adhesive, which in my case was Stixall.

Phil

 

[JIXAMAN]

Modern adhesives can be just as or stronger than welding / fixings... We are in the container / reefer business and do bespoke units for international clients, some of the adhesives used are insane (we have one thats used in the automotive industry to stick high end monocoques together), insane in what they can lift, right adhesive, defo no need to hole the roof to put a bolt in but each to their own

 

[Squiffy]

Despite what you say Phil, I am still of the opinion, when attaching items such as solar panels to use a belt and braces method of attachment, or in other words a good, high quality stainless steel stud and lock nut as well as of course the carefully managed thickness of adhesive, which in my case was Stixall.

Phil

I totally understand your reticence Phil and I have to say that over the years I've often gone topside to check that the things I've stuck on the roof are not parting company, but when all is said and done to be Frank the panel would have to destroy itself to come adrift. With all my might once I'd got the panel out of the mountings try as I might there was not a cat in hells chance of pulling the mounts off, the only way was either a multi tool (but I didn't want to damage the roof or the mounts ) or use my trusty kitchen carving knife, using the knife took me far longer but did not do any damage to roof or mounts.
By the by I readhesived the original adhesive sealant as the new panel was only 10mm different in width and 30mm in lenght and like glueing car and van windows leaving the old sealant adhesive is actually better than trying to remove it in total. Phil

 

[trevskoda]

Modern adhesives can be just as or stronger than welding / fixings... We are in the container / reefer business and do bespoke units for international clients, some of the adhesives used are insane (we have one thats used in the automotive industry to stick high end monocoques together), insane in what they can lift, right adhesive, defo no need to hole the roof to put a bolt in but each to their own

But if a painted roof then alls holding it is a thin layer of paint which may let go, it has happened.

 

[Squiffy]

But if a painted roof then alls holding it is a thin layer of paint which may let go, it has happened.

As did the Titanic Trev, but it was not the ships fault it was the Captain's fault for travelling too fast. You obviously check the paint work is in good condition but in reality your right the paint is thin and could give way though as I stated earlier it took me 2hrs of hard graft to remove the mounts after seven years, so I'm not at all concerned that the solar panel will part company in the next seven years. For those that are nervous then a coach bolt or two through the roof should sort their fears. Phil

 

[Nabsim]

But if a painted roof then alls holding it is a thin layer of paint which may let go, it has happened.

Good reason for roughing down to the metal Trev. Was okay for me as mine is aluminium, shouldn't be a problem on a PVC either so long as plenty adhesive used to fully cover bare metal

 

[Squiffy]

I've just been back on the roof of my van and there is no way that that panel is going on a holiday of its own. You would have to destroy the panel for it to part company from the van or the mountings. So I say that if the job is done correctly and the paint is not obviously flaking off then be at peace and stop worring about beheading motorists, in any case the chance of it hitting a following vehicle through the front screen let alone smashing it ( As most screens are laminated) I personally am putting to bed any concerns as to the safety of glued objects to the roof of vans. . Phil

..

 

[Duckato]

The glue it and pray brigade will always say and try to convince their peers their method is safe this discussion is as old as the hills, and no doubt if done properly in the right conditions and assuming the big unknown I.e. the underlying paint is also well adhered to the vehicle it usually is.

Unfortunately not everyone especially in our increasingly spoon fed Facebook society has the capacity intelligence or attention span to even be bothered to read let alone follow the manglefacturers instructions on their chosen tube of goo.

Even ensuing they maintain the minimum bead thickness often seems to much effort.

We see loads of newbies gluing large 20kg plus domestic panels on using cheap non uv stable flimsy abs brackets often in the winter with temps below manufacturers recommended minimum not allowing sufficient cure time and then wondering what went wrong.

It’s frightening how totally stupid some people seem to be!

I personally am in the Unistrut camp and have used it on lots of customers vans, I categorically will not glue a panel on for anyone, obviously that’s purely a personal choice but I am convinced it is the safest approach.

Interesting to note a lot of motorhome retailers try to offset their liability with solar installs to third party contractors so that if it goes wrong they can try to side step their responsibility to the customer.

There has been several examples of that type of dishonourable blame game behaviour over the years.

 

[Squiffy]

The glue it and pray brigade will always say and try to convince their peers their method is safe this discussion is as old as the hills, and no doubt if done properly in the right conditions and assuming the big unknown I.e. the underlying paint is also well adhered to the vehicle it usually is.

Unfortunately not everyone especially in our increasingly spoon fed Facebook society has the capacity intelligence or attention span to even be bothered to read let alone follow the manglefacturers instructions on their chosen tube of goo.

Even ensuing they maintain the minimum bead thickness often seems to much effort.

We see loads of newbies gluing large 20kg plus domestic panels on using cheap non uv stable flimsy abs brackets often in the winter with temps below manufacturers recommended minimum not allowing sufficient cure time and then wondering what went wrong.

It’s frightening how totally stupid some people seem to be!

I personally am in the Unistrut camp and have used it on lots of customers vans, I categorically will not glue a panel on for anyone, obviously that’s purely a personal choice but I am convinced it is the safest approach.

Interesting to note a lot of motorhome retailers try to offset their liability with solar installs to third party contractors so that if it goes wrong they can try to side step their responsibility to the customer.

There has been several examples of that type of dishonourable blame game behaviour over the years.

I do appreciate your view Dukato and I'm not trying to convince anyone other than me. Others as you, will have to make their own minds up as to how they mount their solar panels but maybe when someone glues windows to the sides of their vans they should consider using brackets on all for corners just to be on the safe side, as window glass is far heavier than a solar panel and subject to gravity as well as wind force.. Phil

 

[Duckato]

@Squiffy, funnily enough personally I have seen a few bonded windows becoming detached or partially detached its probably more common than than solar panels becoming frisbees but usually without the potentially dangerous consequences.

Occasionally there's some history before the failure that if correctly interpreted can prevent a mishap.

Owners reporting new water leaks etc, bonded windows have a far greater surface area around the entire perimeter for the adhesive yet somehow amateur's and professional still get it wrong occasionally. Usually by a combination of not priming or again using insufficient bead depth. but for glass there can be another cause.

I work on lots of ex Service vehicles mostly Ambulances, in service these are relatively well ventilated most aren't well insulated plus they are full of holes everywhere! When converted to a motor caravan people typically remove the bulkhead add insulation often blocking up the oem vents at the rear etc.

The process of slamming barn and cab doors in a well sealed vehicle significantly increases the air pressure in the vehicle for a few seconds before it can find an orifice to escape through, this puts a lot of outward pressure on the glass and that's when badly fitted bonded windows can begin to fail and eventually pop free, usually two or three sides fail first leaving the glass loosely attached so fortunately unlike solar panels I have not seen any pictures of bits of glass straggled across motorway lanes yet....

 

[Squiffy]

@Squiffy, funnily enough personally I have seen a few bonded windows becoming detached or partially detached its probably more common than than solar panels becoming frisbees but usually without the potentially dangerous consequences.

Occasionally there's some history before the failure that if correctly interpreted can prevent a mishap.

Owners reporting new water leaks etc, bonded windows have a far greater surface area around the entire perimeter for the adhesive yet somehow amateur's and professional still get it wrong occasionally. Usually by a combination of not priming or again using insufficient bead depth. but for glass there can be another cause.

I work on lots of ex Service vehicles mostly Ambulances, in service these are relatively well ventilated most aren't well insulated plus they are full of holes everywhere! When converted to a motor caravan people typically remove the bulkhead add insulation often blocking up the oem vents at the rear etc.

The process of slamming barn and cab doors in a well sealed vehicle significantly increases the air pressure in the vehicle for a few seconds before it can find an orifice to escape through, this puts a lot of outward pressure on the glass and that's when badly fitted bonded windows can begin to fail and eventually pop free, usually two or three sides fail first leaving the glass loosely attached so fortunately unlike solar panels I have not seen any pictures of bits of glass straggled across motorway lanes yet....

Conversely I haven't seen solarpanel mayhem on motorways either .Phil

P.s. Think enough said on the subject, it was only an observation on my part as to how difficult it was to remove my particular mountings.

 

[mistericeman]

I've always been in the belt and braces camp solar panel wise ...

(even the nuts securing mine to the factory fitted (bolted through ) rack are double nutted ....second nut being a Nylock )

And having driven my daily commute between Manchester/Gaydon/Midlands up and down the m6 ...

I usually see the remains of a couple of panels a year ....

I've seen 3 since January this year ...framed and frame less .

I think I'll be sticking to belt and braces .

 

[Nabsim]

I think unless you are going to do a proper job then put a bolt through it, I have seen people not following instructions and also glue to dodgy paintwork. I contacted Sika and told them what I was wanting to do, they advised me how to do it (with just glue), I followed their instructions and am happy with the outcome.

I must admit though if I was looking at doing it now I would be looking at using unistrut to fix things to, I would be gluing the unistrut to the roof though, (after another conversation with Sika tech folks).

I usually comment on threads about this subject to give a balanced view as modern adhesives are quite incredible but they do rely on being done properly. Each to their own and I don't care of someone uses 6" nails so long as its not on my van

 

[MatijaSever]

Modern adhesives can be just as or stronger than welding / fixings... https://telegrambetting.club/telegram-sports-betting/telegram-nba-betting/ We are in the container / reefer business and do bespoke units for international clients, some of the adhesives used are insane music analytics company (we have one thats used in the automotive industry to stick high end monocoques together), insane in what they can lift, right adhesive, defo no need to hole the roof to put a bolt in but each to their own

Well, it looks like you've entered the "Avengers of Adhesives" territory! With adhesives so strong, they could probably hold Thor's hammer together. Who needs welding or fixings when you have these superhero-level adhesives at your disposal?

I can imagine your bespoke container and reefer units are like the Iron Man suits of the shipping industry, constructed with the latest cutting-edge adhesives from the Stark Industries of the automotive world.

So, to all the naysayers who think you need bolts to secure things, you can confidently say, "Hole-roof? Nah, we've got adhesives that can handle anything!" Keep saving the day with your adhesive superpowers!

 

[Squiffy]

Well, it looks like you've entered the "Avengers of Adhesives" territory! With adhesives so strong, they could probably hold Thor's hammer together. Who needs welding or fixings when you have these superhero-level adhesives at your disposal?

I can imagine your bespoke container and reefer units are like the Iron Man suits of the shipping industry, constructed with the latest cutting-edge adhesives from the Stark Industries of the automotive world.

So, to all the naysayers who think you need bolts to secure things, you can confidently say, "Hole-roof? Nah, we've got adhesives that can handle anything!" Keep saving the day with your adhesive superpowers!

Oh man of little faith, believe in God my friend and you shall be redeemed. NOT. .Phil

 

[trevskoda]

Mine are bolted through, i used fence brakets bent to 90deg, cheap as chips and galved, stainless bolts to, then under the panels i used a boat deck gland to bring the cables in, 10 years now with no probs.

 

[JIXAMAN]

Lotus carbon fibre chassis are held together with adhesives, as are many other parts in the automotive industry, (in our case we use them in container builds) dont care if you dont believe, I'm going by my industry knowledge and just passing it on, and I get it, there will be things out there ah dont agree with just coz ahm ignorant on the subject too...